A Cry For Justice

Awakening the Evangelical Church to Domestic Violence and Abuse in its Midst

A Translation of Piper’s Clarifying Words

Colour coding: John Piper / my translations / my comments

The full text of Piper’s “Clarification” may be found here.

Begin translation:

Clarifying Words on Wife Abuse Just the title makes this a women’s issue. “Wife abuse.” Why not use the terminology “men who abuse their wives?” Omitting the noun for the abuser — and his gender — makes the abuser less visible and less culpable.

Several years ago, I was asked in an online Q&A, “What should a wife’s submission to her husband look like if he’s an abuser?”
It was so long ago that I wish people would stop bugging me about it already. I mean we took it off of the DG website and everything. But darn the Internet for never forgetting things. Oh well, I guess, I’d better try to save face.
I continue to assert that Piper’s career should have ended in 2009 when he said “simply hurting her.” That it didn’t, that he still has an audience and over half a million followers on Twitter, is an indictment on the Church and a huge warning signal declaring that Christians still don’t comprehend what abuse is or what to do about it.

One of the criticisms He could be subtly playing the victim by having to endure “criticisms?” Why not call them concerns?  of my answer has been that I did not mention the recourse that a wife has to law enforcement for protection. So let me clarify Should’ve been an apology. with seven biblical observations. I’ll call them biblical and maybe I’ll look pious and they’ll forget that I’m not actually apologizing.

[later]

Therefore, an abusive husband is breaking God’s law. He is disobeying Christ. He is not to be indulged but disciplined by the church. How? Tell me how. What is this discipline and what keeps the unrepentant abuser from going to the church down the street where he’s not being disciplined?  Exhibit A: Doug Phillips.  

The wife is not insubordinate to ask the church for help. How should the church help? Because many churches believe that sending her back and telling her to be more submissive is helping. Ministers need real training on how to help.

A Christian woman should not feel that the only help available to her is the police. That would be a biblical failure of her church. This is subtle guilt mongering. The woman is the actor again. The church should be the actor, not the woman and her feelings.  The word ‘should’ can be used to address the church, but not the woman and especially not in telling her how she *should not feel*.  The church should be helping the targets stay secure and mitigating financial factors that would pressure her not to alert the authorities. The church should be apologizing for how it has made women feel that the police are more help than the church! 

[later]

Which means that a husband who threatens and intentionally injures his wife is not only breaking God’s moral law, but also the state’s civil law. In expecting his wife to quietly accept his threats and injuries, he is asking her to participate in his breaking of both God’s moral law and the state’s civil law. Wait a minute John, I think that in 2009 you said that “simply hurting her” isn’t “requiring her to sin.” Here’s the quote:

If it’s not requiring her to sin, but simply hurting her, then I think she endures verbal abuse for a season, she endures perhaps being smacked one night, and then she seeks help from the church.

So it seems to me that you need to say “I WAS WRONG,” instead of clarifying. Clarifying is making things more understandable. You are contradicting yourself. That’s less understandable. Which is it? Is “simply hurting her” requiring her to sin or not? In addition to an apology, I’d like an actual clarification on this point.

[later]

This legitimate recourse to civil protection may be done in a spirit that does not contradict the spirit of love and submission to her husband, for a wife may take this recourse with a heavy and humble heart Here, right here is where many churches will blame the victim. If she isn’t humble or heavy hearted enough (and they can always move the goalposts on that, because it’s so nebulous), they will claim that she is wrong, sinning, bitter, unforgiving, and all sorts of nonsense. The whole thing will get flipped and the victim will be placed on trial for not seeking help the right way. that longs for her husband’s repentance and the restoration of his nurturing leadership.  We have an entire post addressing the use of “restoration” in marriage ministry circles. Suffice it to say for now, it’s not appropriate.

I’m just going to bold all the qualifiers he uses in this next one. Qualifiers create wiggle room. If churches don’t want to act, they can find a qualifier/loophole and try to appease their consciences by pointing to the ifs, ands, buts, oftens, seldoms, mays, mights, and perhapses and claim the situation in front of them falls into a gray area provided by said qualifiers. A fun exercise to do on your own would be to go through the entire Clarifying Words… and just highlight the qualifiers. 

4. The church should not harbor an abusive man or woman whom the civil authorities would punish if they knew what the church knows. We are called to mercy. “Be merciful as your heavenly Father is merciful” (Luke 6:36). But there are times when mercy to one demands justice for another. This is often the case with criminal abuse. Moreover, there are many ways to show mercy toward a guilty person who must pay fines or go to jail. We are seldom in a position where the choice is simply mercy or no mercy.

5. For many women, the thought of a husband going to jail and losing his job and being publicly shamed is so undesirable that they often endure much sin before becoming desperate enough to turn to the authorities. What I want to stress is that long before they reach a point of desperation — or harm — the women of the church should know that there are spiritual men and women in the church that they can turn to for help. This contradicts the first sentence of 4. Can I get a clarification? 

[Later, still in 5] 

Or they may determine that laws have been broken and the civil authorities should or must be notified. Who is determining that a crime has been committed? Is there a grand jury at the church? Is there a CSI unit that’s dispatched? Do they keep the CSI jackets next to the choir robes? That’s absurd. Police investigate crimes, not deacons, elders, home group leaders, etc. 

[later, the last sentence]

Make it part of the culture of manhood in the church that the men will not tolerate the abuse of any of its women. “Its women?” This is the clincher for me. “Its women.” I have two problems with this. First, are we only to stand against abuse that Christian women are enduring? And second, “its,” the possessive adjective is very demeaning; “its” implies women are owned, chattel. It grates on me. 

End of translation.

I haven’t even begun to address the fact that Piper ignores every other kind of abuse. He is still missing the point. Nothing is clarified. And he still hasn’t apologized.

* * *

Ellie is now offering a private translation service. For more info email her at EllieCriesForJustice@gmail.com.

Note from Eds: If you liked this translation by Ellie, you might like to also read her other ‘translation’ posts:

 Badgering Badgers

Another Badger, and a translation of his manipulative language

40 Comments

  1. IamMyBeloved's

    “that longs for her husband’s repentance and the restoration of his nurturing leadership.”

    By the time an abuse victim gets around to reporting or asking for help, this period of “longing” has usually been spent by years of repeated false repentance and ongoing abuse. I think that is what leadership does not get. Abuse victims don’t report, sometimes even after decades of abuse. By the time an abuse victim comes for help, they have usually been doing the abuse cycles for years and years. They are worn out from fighting and hoping and praying and submitting and trying everything they can to change the situation. But the “helpers” want to assume that it has only been going on a brief time and that she has not really done anything, because she is just now coming to them for help. So they want her to wait it out and try harder and pray more and submit more and lean on God more and on and on and on, instead of just taking action. Why do they want women to be abused more? Is that Scriptural? By the time she comes knocking for help, she is usually so afraid and spent with enduring abuse, that she cannot do it any longer. She has tried. She has prayed for years. She has submitted. She has done it all – but to no avail. When is she to be shown mercy?

    Now the “nurturing leadership”. He is just not understanding abuse, period. Nurturing leadership from an abuser? Did he not understand that it is abuse? What is nurturing about that? Why does he assume that at one point, the abuser was a nurturer, or even that the abuser could be restored to be a nurturer? This is why, as said again and again, the Church really needs to understand abuse and the dynamics and consequences for the victims of it.

    It is always funny to me, how the woman is overshadowed by the “weaker vessel” (which is biblical, but they often misuse or misunderstand this) or “not quite as smart as a man”, or “she just isn’t able to understand God on her own “, etc., with some of these people, and yet they want and even demand for her to be the stronger one and the “man of the house” if you will. So they send her back to face the giant and be strong enough to fight him. Just seems like talking out both sides of your mouth to me.

    • IamMyBeloved's

      I just also want to add here, that it is so often taught that women should lay down their lives if necessary, for the salvation of their abuser; they should endure abuse that his soul might be saved. This is not biblical. A pastor who has taken the Gospel to someone and gets the heck beat out of them every time they go visit that person whom “they” are trying to save, should do exactly as Jesus says and “shake the dust”. I highly doubt that anyone would continue to face and take a beating for trying to share the Gospel with the same person over and over again. To remain getting beaten for doing so, simply makes one realize that the individual bringing the Gospel, is setting themselves up for this and has a severe martyr complex. God saves – not us.

      If an abuser is to be saved, God will do it. It is not the wife’s or the children’s jobs to save the abuser, it is God’s work. Crediting the wife for the abuser’s salvation, saying that a wife endured decades of abuse so her husband could be saved, is to present a false Gospel. If an abuser claims he came to Christ because his wife endured his abuse of her, just means that the abuser still does not understand that Salvation is about his own sin and Christ – not about his wife and her ability to endure his abuse of her. Satan has a work he is doing also and we are not called to lay our lives down for satan’s work to be accomplished.

      But let it also be said that domestic abuse is NOT about being a Christian. It is not about praying or submission. It is about satanic power and control by one individual (abuser) over another person (victim). It is never about Christ. We do not just see domestic abuse in Christian homes.

      • StandsWithAFist

        Excellent, maddeningly so. Amen, Ellie & IAmMyBeloved, you are soo very correct. Piper seems to have missed Matthew 16, when Jesus questions the disciples brilliantly “who do people say I am?” And, after they answer, “some say a prophet, some say Elijah”, He turns to Peter & makes it personal: “who do YOU say that I am?”
        And Peter answers, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the Living God”. And here’s the “kicker”, the “takeaway”:
        “And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Peter, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but my Father in heaven!”
        The Holy Spirit revealed truth to Peter, NOT “flesh & blood”. That same Holy Spirit will reveal that same truth to abusive husbands.
        Clearly, wives, “women” (sic) are NOT the Holy Spirit, but are flesh & blood, thus NOT responsible for the salvation of their husbands; NO one is responsible for the salvation of another, much less for their abuser, whether male or female, young or old, parent or child. To say otherwise IS a false Gospel.
        Furthermore, when Jesus sent out the twelve in Matthew 10, He actually instructed them to flee persecution (v. 23), shaking dust off their feet as they went, & warning them about men like Piper.
        Piper is “flesh & blood” and has a Messiah complex (IMHO). May the Lord rebuke him.

  2. Don Johnson

    I think Piper is faced with the contradictions of his position and equivocates instead of facing the contradictions and changing.

  3. Anonymous

    It is interesting that Piper says that the church should be there for the abused. Over the last 3 years, I talked to pastors and elders about the emotional and financial abuse I was enduring. After determining that it was not physical abuse, I was being prideful and wanted control. Their determination was that he needed to move into the home that my kids and I were in, I needed to go through church discipline, and they agreed with him that I needed to be reported to child protection. And this is in Piper’s church.

    • Anonymous – are you referring to Bethlehem Baptist Church? I know John PIper has stepped down from pastoring there, so are you saying that the current pastors have done this to you?

      If so, what a legacy he has passed down. I’m so sorry you have had to endure this. I hope you have now left that church.

      • Anonymous

        Yes. That is the church I am referring to. The baton of pastor was just passed a couple years ago while I was in the midst of working with the other pastors on this issue. (He took a year away and is now attending as a member of the congregation.) I have now been attending another church, although they continue to try to get me to counseling with them and won’t let me drop membership without an interview.

        The sad thing is that 30 years ago when I started attending Piper was preaching on the unity of the body and people being there for each other. And Christian hedonism was a response to the older generation that emotions and a joy in God are ok and appropriate as apposed to a duty. I have seen over the years that there are people in the church who have not grasped the “flavor” of what he was trying to communicate at that time and turned it into a legalistic pursuit.

        I also suspect (although I have not fully researched it) that because of how pressing it was to write the book “Biblical Manhood and Womanhood” at the time that it affected his thinking regarding women that had not been obvious in his writing and speaking previously. It was at the time the book came out that women’s options within our church became limited and families left the church due to that issue. I has not been aware of his response to abuse until I found this blog…from Lundy’s blog. But unfortunately Piper’s response makes sense in how it is applied in his church.

    • this is in Piper’s church.

      Anonymous, thank you for sharing here! Piper’s church (Bethelehem Baptist Church, MN) treated you dreadfully unjustly when you sought help for the domestic abuse you were suffering. Your account confirms what we’ve heard from another woman. We did not publish the account from the other woman who’d suffered under Piper’s church, since we didn’t have her permission to publish her story.

  4. Did anyone catch that Piper has a smile on his face after he reads the question about what a wife should do about submitting to an abuser? Go check it out at the 26-27 second mark. Why would anyone have a smile on their face when talking about abuse?

    I have an idea about that smile. I think it goes along with Piper’s doctrinal beliefs that God is Sovereign over all, controlling every molecule – even allowing abuse to happen. He believes that God allows abuse for His glory. So I think he’s must be smiling thinking about the full picture of abuse and God’s glory through his doctrinal lens (which I find sick). That also would explain why he flippantly throws out the most insensitive tweets during catastrophic events where there is loss of life and destruction.

    It’s really important to note that Piper is not just casually responding to the domestic violence question – he is sincerely responding from his doctrinal viewpoint. His doctrine is the problem and the doctrine enables abuse and that is why he can unashamedly respond the way he does and think he is biblically correct.

    • Brenda R

      Julie Anne,
      I have seen this clip many times over. That smile makes me want to go to Minneapolis and wipe it off his face. What is more sickening is the pastors that follow his doctrine. They really feel that Piper is a good if not excellent teacher of the gospel. I find him immoral and as un Christ-like as one can go without being a murderer, rapist etc. When I think about it though by the way he approaches abuse he may be causing these things to happen, which makes him just as guilty as the abuser.

    • thepersistentwidow

      Julie Anne,

      You hit the nail right on the head when you wrote: “It’s really important to note that Piper is not just casually responding to the domestic violence question – he is sincerely responding from his doctrinal viewpoint.” Amen!

      His position on marriage and divorce are a symptom of his sick doctrine on justification. Because he believes in double justification, a justification that relies on our works and not solely on the finished work of Christ, he lays other works on believers and leaves them to doubt their salvation. Jeff wrote an excellent series beginning with this post: An examination of John Piper’s Preaching of Works Righteousness, part 1. It follows systematically that Piper teaches if one does not follow his doctrine, they have committed the unpardonable sin. I wrote a post about that here: John Piper’s Errroneous Teaching on the Unpardonable Sin.

      If your church is following Piper’s unsound divorce doctrine it is consistent that they have an unbiblical understanding of justification. That may be because they don’t understand what Christian theology is or are themselves legalists like Piper, either way anyone who believes it has left the truth of the Gospel for a false religion. Piper’s doctrine is heretical and dangerous. He has made no attempt to correct his teaching so I believe that he can be safely categorized as a full blown heretic. Many have no interest in theology, but rather follow any popular idea, and that is how he continues his charade unhindered.

      The churches that have been so lazy to allow this poison into their congregations need to repent. I believe that God’s people should repudiate this affront to Christ’s atonement and leave such places for their own good. I am thankful for the bad treatment that I received at the hand’s of Piper’s doctrine because it alerted me to the dangerous, soul-killing doctrine in that church.

    • Julie Anne
      I’m glad you brought up that smile of Piper’s. It’s made me wince for years. Pretty soon after I first watched that video clip, it became like a bit of food stuck between my teeth, annoying, irritating, hard to dislodge, distracting, always dragging my unwilling attention back to it.

      I think there are a number of ways one could interpret that smile, all of them bad. Your interpretation is certainly one possibility. Another is that he has addressed that question many times before (perhaps in couple counseling he was doing with abusers and their victims? … ugh) and it’s like an old canard to him, so he smiles in a kind of patronizing way as if he’s thinking “Yes, that old question again. . . well I’ll explain it to these plebs because they are too thick to work it out for themselves and I can tell them the answer to it inside out and back to front even with a blindfold on!” [primp primp, smirk smirk]

      And I always have the sense that the smirking smile is meant for the men in the audience. “Yeah, guys, it’s a pain, isn’t it? But we have to answer this one, since the silly women always keep asking it. But we can be patient with them because they are silly and weaker and we are smarter and stronger and our role is so lead them.”

      • That is EXACTLY the way I took “the smile” Barbara! The “here we go again and how can I say what I REALLY think and believe when it is so barbaric, oh the conundrum, the hassle, the inconvenience, but I’ll do my best to help everyone understand…heavy sigh…!”

  5. Searcher

    I believe that the one of the most important things that a religious organization can do is to give it’s members tools to place in their tool box. These tools should make their lives better. We should fill our tool boxes with patience, kindness ,gentleness, openness and transparency. A church that does not help it’s members to develop the tools with which to enhance their lives is failing them. The ungodly principals that are peddled by way too many pastors and religious organizations fail their members. Some men are confused because their wives and children are not close to them. They fail to understand that you cannot have both domination and love. Pastors tell their members to trust God when the going gets tough. Some pastors are dismissive of men who truly love and cherish their families . These men shine a light on men who are abusive and secretive. Pastors who are not careful about what they tell men can embolden an abusive man resulting in pain and suffering to his family.

  6. Brenda R

    Anon,
    I am so sorry that you went through this. I went to Bethlehem once while I was in Minneapolis on vacation. I was not impressed. JP wasn’t there. He was on a writing leave so another pastor was doing the preaching that day. He actually spoke of sleep as a sin. I couldn’t believe it. I’m pretty sure that the disciples and Jesus himself grew weary and slept. The first book I read of Piper’s was “This Momentary Marriage”. I have collected his books from places where people might get them too easily like garage sales and thrift stores for the purpose of them not getting into people’s hands. If they want them, they’ll have to pay more at a book store. With his unbiblical view of no divorce for no reason, anything else he says is blah, blah, blah.

  7. I also looked at the video and was shocked by the lack of empathy. The man showed no concern for the plight of the victim.

  8. Ann

    He just creeps me out.

    I see and hear: That smirk when he says, “if he’s an abuser” — as, ‘here we go again, us poor men being referred to as an abuser’. And when he says the word, “smacked” he puts some gusto behind that as if to say, ‘give to her good just one time, and than she won’t be a problem anymore.’

  9. Ann

    And I wonder how long it will be before we learn Piper abused or is abusing his wife or any other women who have crossed paths with him???

  10. LorenHaas

    Anonymous- “The Wartburg Watch” has posted a sample church membership resignation letter and procedure for delivering it. It has been sucessful in stopping harassment form abusive churches like the one you were in.
    http://thewartburgwatch.com/2013/05/23/abusive-church-discipline-how-to-recognize-it-and-escape/
    So sorry that you have been hurt.

    • Thanks for adding that link, Loren.

      Readers, we also have that link on the Spiritual Abuse page of our Resources. So you can find it there anytime you may need it.

    • HappyToBursting

      This is fascinating.

      12 years ago when I refused to return to my abuser, the church where we were members (I had to stand in front of the church and swear allegiance to the pastors and elders), told me they were beginning the discipline process. I responded with an email telling them that I no longer wished to be a part of their congregation because I no longer had any confidence in the ability of the leadership to properly guide the members. Their response: you can’t do that because we’ve already started the process. In other words, “You can’t quit. You’re fired!”

      In the end, it was part of a sovereign God’s plan for me. (Of course.) When the judge saw the systematic way that X and the church destroyed every single relationship I had in that state, he ruled that the children and I did not need to return.

      • LorenHaas

        Happy you are out of there!
        Sorry you had to suffer these fools.

        The mouths of fools are their ruin; they trap themselves with their lips.
        Proverbs 18:7

      • When the judge saw the systematic way that X and the church destroyed every single relationship I had in that state, he ruled that the children and I did not need to return.

        Now THAT is a good story! Hallelujah.

      • Brenda R

        Happy,
        Amen!! A judge that did the right thing. I will never swear allegiance to church leadership. My only allegiance is to Jesus Christ, not man. I am so glad you are out. Whether you quit or fired it doesn’t matter as long as you are free.

  11. Barnabasintraining

    its women.

    Ellie, this right here tells us everything we need to know about what Piper is really defending. The church owns us. Not just women but men too, though the preference is given to men (but that is beside the point). In Piperville, there is no such thing as a Spirit led Christian who would go against the wishes of the church, meaning the leaders. The entire thrust of the piece here is submission/subjection to men and the institution. This is supposedly equivalent to submission to Christ. There is no difference such as the Apostles faced where they had to respond “we must obey God rather than men.” In Piperville, there is no distinction.

    So yes, he is going to say “its women.” The church owns us. The real thing Piper has a problem with is an individual’s independent thought and action because ipso facto such cannot be Spirit led. All the more so if the individual is a woman.

    In other words, Piper’s authoritarianism is showing.

    • Barnabasintraining: Can I add a couple of words to your last sentence? Piper’s authoritarianism over women is showing.

  12. Ann

    I just noticed something else, his eyebrow raise at the words, “if he’s an abuser” — speaks disdain for the person who brings the abuse to light.

    • Yes, disdain. And it suggests that we ought to suspect the whistleblower, the person who brings the abuse to light. So it’s a blame-the-victim default, rather than a believe-the-victim default.

  13. Karen

    John Piper has become a false god amongst those who profess Christ. Churches now follow the words of the Pipers, the Driscolls, the McDonalds and the MacArthurs, the Luther’s, the Pope’s, the Finneys, the Calvins and the Edwards…..

    And then there are the words from Jesus, our Rabbi. Any time we place a man’s word in place of Jesus’ Word, then it becomes an antichrist system. “Anti” means “in place of Christ.”

    Let us be very careful of those who we place as “lords” over us for Jesus is our true LORD.

    • thepersistentwidow

      Karen, I agree with you that for whatever reason, John Piper has become a demigod in certain Christian circles. That said, I cite Eph 4:11-14 (ESV):

      And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers, to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ, so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes.

      Yes, Satan has his counterfeit teachers, but the Lord has given us true teachers who were (and are) for our good. They are gracious gifts that we should be thankful for. Let’s be careful that we distinguish the wolves from the sheep properly.

    • Karen, welcome to the blog 🙂

  14. Sarah

    “If it’s not requiring her to sin, but simply hurting her, then I think she endures verbal abuse for a season, she endures perhaps being smacked one night, and then she seeks help from the church.”

    What I find so disturbing about this quote is a person can be murdered with a single hit. So, if a wife who endures ‘one night of abuse’ can end up dead, her husband imprisoned and their children orphaned, shouldn’t we be teaching abuse avoidance at all costs? Drugs kill and so does abuse. The only help the church could offer at that point is her funeral.

    • great point, Sarah.
      One-punch killing is indeed a reality. But Mr Prim Piper does not seem to think about that.

  15. Valerie

    Perhaps this is another clarification of Piper’s sincere view on the subject. Some may say he might have changed his views since the original transcript from 2009. He tweeted this Jan 21, 2015 but later deleted it:
    “The Bible says there are men who rape (Genesis 34:2) and women who seduce (Genesis 39:7). United in sin, distinct in form.”

    There are screenshots of this tweet across the web as proof he really said this. I can not understand how any person who has studied and taught the Word of God for years can simultaneously be so lacking in empathy. It is further difficult to understand how people can continue to want to sit at the feet of such a man who would say the kinds of things that tumble out of his mouth.

    • StandsWithAFist

      Oh for crying out loud: this is a yet another example of sin-leveling and I for one am feeling violated (ie: raped) by the words of John Piper.

      Those who sit under his (Piper’s) teaching (with rapt attention, w/o discernment) would do well to remember Jude 10,11:

      But these men do not understand the things they slander, and they are being destroyed by the very things that, like irrational animals, they instinctively comprehend.
      Woe to them! For they have traveled down Cain’s path, and because of greed have abandoned themselves to Balaam’s error; hence, they will certainly perish in Korah’s rebellion. [NET Bible]

      In God’s sovereign purposes, somehow I picture John Piper in the abyss with Korah.

      May the Lord rebuke him…..

      • I really like the NET Bible’s translation of those two verses. 🙂

  16. StandsWithAFist

    I would like to add that Piper’s exegesis of Genesis 39:7 as “women who seduce” is glaringly inaccurate, in that it says specifically “his master’s wife”, not “women” in general:

    “Soon after these things, his master’s wife took notice of Joseph and said, “Have sex with me.”

    So, once again and unsurprisingly, Piper paints with a broad brush and unwittingly exposes his view of ALL women
    (Not to mention the context of the story was the righteousness of Joseph rather than the behavior of a specific, pagan woman.)

    So there.

  17. Valerie

    In some Middle Eastern countries men may well accuse of woman of seducing them by having their arms or head partially uncovered.

    • StandsWithAFist

      Yes, and Piper seems to have conveniently adopted the same view.: simply being a female equates to being a seductress, and women must actively seek to avoid being seen as such, while men are not held to account for exploiting & objectifying women.

      Oddly, rapes and aggression continue in cultures that demand “modesty” from women yet do not expect self-control & respect from the men who oppress them.

      How does Piper defend that when Jesus valued women, and did not interpret their every move as an attempt to seduce Him?
      Whether the woman at the well, the woman who was hemorrhaging or the woman who anointed His feet with tears, Jesus never viewed them as seductresses, He did not interpret their behavior as such, but as image bearers with inherent worth.

      Piper needs to go back and do his homework.

      Or perhaps he just needs to sit down and shut up.

Trackbacks

  1. The Divorce of Lesley and Barnabas Piper as Presented by Barnabas, Son of John Piper | The Wartburg Watch 2016

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