A Cry For Justice

Awakening the Evangelical Church to Domestic Violence and Abuse in its Midst

14. Weird jokes, love of money, self-marketing — red flags that Chris Moles is a charlatan.

Have you acted the buffoon at one time or another? I have.

But how many domestic abuse professionals act the buffoon at batterer intervention conferences? … let alone be such drongos as to put those moments up on Twitter?

Chris Moles retweeted this image of himself and a colleague clowning around at conference run by the Batterer Intervention Services Coalition of Michigan. Chris is the guy on the right.

Chris Moles often “cracks jokes” against himself. But there’s something deeply unsettling about his so-called jokes. And he obviously relishes the attention he gets from being able to make his audience laugh. In my opinion, this just shows how smugly self-conceited he is.

Chris and another pastor wrote churchplantrant.blogspot.com in 2003 while they were planting new churches for the Christian Missionary Alliance (CMA). At the top of their blog they wrote this: 

THE BIZARRE ADVENTURES OF TWO REDNECK GOOFBALLS WHO CONNED AN ENTIRE DENOMINATION INTO FUNDING THEIR TWO CHURCH PLANTS CHRIS MOLES IS PASTOR OF GRACE COMMUNITY CHURCH IN ELEANOR, WV, POPULATION 18 IF YOU COUNT THE DOGS. SCOTT ELKINS IS PASTOR OF THE CHURCH DOWNTOWN IN HUNTINGTON, WV POPULATION ABOUT 60,000, AND THAT INCLUDES THE HIPPIES, DRUG DEALERS, AND STREET FOLK.

Truly, you can’t make this stuff up!

Chris Moles called himself a “goofball”. Chris and his buddy Scott Elkins openly stated that they “conned” the CMA to fund them to plant two churches in West Virginia. Out of the mouth the heart speaks. 

Here is what the self-professed goofball said fourteen years later in 2017, when delivering a presentation to biblical counselors — 

I don’t take myself too seriously, so I would appreciate if you’d join me in that.

…I remember early on, when I was first starting this work [batterer intervention programs], about ten or twelve years ago, I had a supervisor, somebody from the State, it was a secular monitoring agency. She was watching me facilitate a group and asking me questions. And afterwards she said, “Chris,” (she was not happy) “you are far too jovial with these guys. They are not your friends. They’re here to be punished.”

I was like, “oh”  – so I pushed back a little. I said, “I know they’re not my friends, we’re not hanging out afterwards, that’s not what we’re doing. But I feel like if I don’t approach them as human beings, then I’m going to burn out really quick and they’re not going to have any hope.”

So, when I teach and talk I’m not trying to make anything light about our tough topic. But we are going to have a little bit of fun because if we spend four straight hours today, and a couple more tomorrow if you join me in those session, it is disparaging, the information we’re talking about. Okay? So, feel free to laugh, we’re going to have a good time. And we’re going to learn a little bit about the hope that is in the gospel. (B 00:42*)

I have to ask myself whether Chris knows the meaning of the word “disparaging”.

Let me give you another example of Chris Moles’ weird sense of humor. He gave a talk to biblical counselors on the impact of abuse on children (G). I thought that talk was pretty good apart from one weird moment where Chris’s bizarre sense of humor surfaced for a second. Here are the words he uttered that were hair-raising:

My goal is really to tell jokes so that no one laughs at the end of the day, and I’m completely isolated from you. (G 49:09)

You can hear on the audio how his audience of biblical counselors laughed when he made that self-deprecating “joke”. Truly, it sent chills down my spine.

Even more sickening, Chris calls the Lord Jesus Christ  “dude” –

I love that dude! (B 40:00)  

Well – awesome! I love this dude! Jesus is the best! (F 28:00–29:11) 

When a person refers to Jesus as “dude,” it is evidence that the person has no fear of God.

Chris Moles’ attitude to money 

Chris recounts that in his early days as a church planter he was praying for something to do because he needed help connecting with the community. And soon after he was invited to work for the juvenile crime board of his local county (F 01:57;  H 02:07).  He thought that was an answer to his prayer. So he worked in government programs for juvenile justice, and that led to him leading parenting courses for the government, and that led to him being asked if he would facilitate batterer intervention programs. He says he repeatedly refused to work in batterer intervention, but changed his mind when he was told about the $$$ he would get paid. (N 36:00; C 3:22-5:35, B 4:45 to 5:36)

Chris says he’s embroidered that story slightly, while giggling because the story is self-deprecating. But it’s obvious he enjoys getting his audience to laugh.

In addition to his government-funded work with abusers for the parole board, Chris has offered individual coaching for abusive men. Here is how he has marketed his coaching program. I copied and pasted these words from his website some months ago:

Coaching with Chris

Rev. Chris Moles works directly with select groups of men who desire to move from destructive patterns in their lives and relationships to healthy and supportive alternatives.

Are you ready to:

  • Move beyond fear, anger, and destructive behavior and live for the glory of God?
  • Practice Biblical life-skills that will allow you to challenge destructive thinking, emotions, and behavior making way for more healthy and loving relationships?
  • Become more intentional about compassion, gentleness, and kindness towards others?
  • Deepen your relationship with God and others?
  • Find freedom to become the man God designed you to be?

Working with a coach can help!

Chris is accepting applications for his three (3) month “Men of Peace” coaching programs. Complete the application below to get started with no obligation and to see if coaching is a good fit for you.

In the final question on the application form at his website, Chris Moles said to his potential participants: “The investment to work with Chris personally is $3,000. Does this fit your budget?”

Note: Chris’s website now says he is no longer accepting applications for his Men of Peace Coaching Groups. (link)

Yes, we all need to make a living: we all need shelter over our heads and food and clothing. And if we have children under our care, we need to provide for them. But that’s not the same thing as having a love of money. The Bible says that if someone has a love of money, that disqualifies them from having a leadership position in a congregation of the church (1 Tim 3:3).

I have heard that it is not uncommon in America for men who are mandated to attend batterer intervention programs to lean on their parents or extended family to fork out the weekly program fee. Abusive men are milking their long-suffering families to pay the fees for them to attend court-ordered batterer intervention programs.

It is totally unethical for a Christian to get paid to work with an abuser when the abuser’s family have to tighten their belts in order to pay the fees.

The Bible tells us that a man who financially abuses his family is worse than an unbeliever.

If anyone does not provide for his own family, especially for his own household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever. (1 Tim 5:8 CSB)

When he is addressing ‘c’hristian audiences, Chris frequently plugs his book and touts himself as a domestic abuse consultant for churches  (e.g., F 20:34-22:25; 59:18). He is blatant about how he enjoys the money he gets from being seen as an expert.

Peaceworks University

At chrismoles.org you will see that Chris is running “Peaceworks University”. The fee to sign up to “Peaceworks University” is US$15 per month or $150 per annum.   

To call his online thing a “university” is the height of arrogance and foolishness. A university is a fully accredited institution: it can only call itself a university if it is accredited by the authorities. A university is an institution that provides Bachelor or Master or PhD level courses of study, and it has to meet strict standards to be accredited by government authorities. Chris Moles reveals his pride and stupidity by using the term “university” for his $150 a year coaching program for dippy church people.  

***

*Citations in this post are shown in grey, with each item designated by a capital letter.
The Chris Moles Digest gives a link to each item cited by a capital letter.

 

41 Comments

  1. anon

    I find it pretty insulting for him to basically say it will be too much for abusive men to endure four days of the hard truth when they have caused their wives a lifetime of suffering. It also tells me he himself is not willing to do any suffering for the sake of the truth….nup, he has to make it ‘fun’ for it to be worthwhile for him.

    • Hi Anon, when Chris said

      So, when I teach and talk I’m not trying to make anything light about our tough topic. But we are going to have a little bit of fun because if we spend four straight hours today, and a couple more tomorrow

      he was speaking to an audience of biblical counselors at the IBCD Pre-Conference.

      I can easily see how you misunderstood, because in the paragraph before that quoted sentence he was relaying to the biblical counselors what he had said to the government supervisor when she was assessing how he was running BIP groups for the state (BIP = Batterer Intervention Program).

      • Anon

        Oops sorry….I got the four days versus 4 hrs thing wrong too. Sorry read it late at night.

        But regardless I find it really offensive he is doing any joking around when it is such a serious subject matter.

        Would it be appropriate at a convention or in groups on child sexual abuse? No! Neither is it at DV conferences, groups or anything like that.

        The bible talks about how the hurt of his daughters was healed lightly. I can’t remember the exact verse but I think it is in Isaiah. I just think he is making light of a very serious matter (domestic abuse) by all his joking and acting like he is a goofy celebrity. Minimising sin.

      • Jeannie

        Jeremiah 6:14 They have healed also the hurt of the daughter of my people slightly, saying, Peace, peace; when there is no peace.

      • 🙂

    • Lee Anne

      I was at that conference, my first on DV and trust me I was moved to tears way more than I laughed, by things Chris shared with us that day. I am a survivor and the heart of this man for the abused was on display. I for one appreciate the hope he has that Jesus can help the abuser as well. I walked away truly stunned at how much this man understands about abuse and his ability to communicate the concepts was wonderful. I highly recommend his book as well as Peace Works University👏🏻😁

      • Hi Lee Anne, I’m not sure which conference you are referring to. Chris has presented at many different conferences.

        As you like Chris Moles so much, you might like to have a look at this post:
        Parched for truth — dehydrated — victims appreciate ANY water, but it’s better to give them pure rather than muddy water.

      • Since this is your first comment at the blog Lee Anne, welcome to the blog! 🙂

        We like to encourage new readers to check out our New Users’ Info page as it gives tips for how to guard your safety while commenting on the blog.

        And after reading the New Users’ Info page, you might like to look at ourFAQ page.

        If you want us to change your screen name to something other than Lee Anne, just email TWBTC (The Woman Behind The Curtain). Her address is twbtc.acfj@gmail.com

      • Bj

        He has misled you. The abuser should have said no to abuse to begin with however, needs to fear God and not man by telling the truth.

  2. GypsyAngel

    YIKES!
    Once again you have shown just how off-kilter and biblically unsound Mr. Moles’ “teachings” really are. I’m to the point that I actually cringe when I read another post on how this individual approaches Batters Intervention and abusers. I am concerned that “the powers that be” see this man as an expert not only in secular circles but in church circles as well. In the long run, I believe that the potential for harm from Mr. Moles’ programs is rather large. I really do not see what can be done to mitigate the damage from those teachings, except to speak openly when we have knowledge of any curriculum that employes them. Again, thank you, Barbara and staff, for the awesome work that you do.

    • Hi Gypsy Angel, just to be clear, all the ACFJ team are volunteers including myself. There are no paid “staff” at ACFJ.

      • GypsyAngel

        I apologize for the use of the word staff. I do know that they are all volunteers.

      • 🙂 🙂

      • Helovesme

        I don’t know if I am the only one who might be wondering about this:

        Is there a way to send cards, or thank you letters to ACFJ? Do you have a physical address to send such things to?

        Not sure if that makes more work for your volunteers, to open more mail, but hopefully it would bless and encourage.

      • We would prefer not to receive cards or thank you letters by snail mail. TWBTC and I do not give out our physical addresses very much at all. I do not even let professing Christians know what suburb I live in, when I interact with face to face here in my town.

        There are some other ways to show thanks for what we do. You can share posts and pages from our blog with other people who you know. And you can donate money to our Gift Books Project, which helps us provide more gift books to survivors who are strapped for cash.

      • Helovesme

        Barbara, thank you for that info. Of course I totally understand not giving out certain information. Will keep those things you mentioned in mind!

    • Lee Anne

      I suggest you actually listen to Chris or read what he has written yourself, in its entirety. Sadly these comments are not accurate.

      • Hello Lee Anne, I am the one who wrote this series of posts about Chris Moles. Believe me, I have listened to what he has said and read what he had written.

        It took me months to write this series because I wanted to make sure I had studied Chris Moles’ work in great detail so that I did not misrepresent him.

      • Hi Lee Ann,
        While I certainly understand that you might think I have gotten my personal information on Chris Moles only from reading this blog, I would like to assure you that I do my research. Though I haven’t been blessed to attend any of his conferences, I had decided some time ago to not do so (prior to Barbara ever writing these pieces) based upon certain of HIS written pieces and a few videos that I have watched. I found “something” decidedly off about how he approached the subject of abuse as a whole. Something was unsettling to me. I have found in the past that when I get that sort of unsettledness in my core that it is most often a leading of the Spirit telling me that something isn’t quite right there. As a woman who works at living by listening to the Holy Spirit (though I do DEFINITELY fall short) I tend to pay attention to the bells and whistles that the Spirit places on my heart.

         I am very happy that you have found solace in his work and teaching, though for me I choose to go a different route as I really don't believe that he truly gets it. Also, I think that, as most of us still here on earth, Mr. Moles still has much learning, growing, and healing to do. There are NONE of us who have reached perfection yet.
        
  3. Jeff Crippen

    This information alone is enough for a wise person to reject Moles. Apparently there are many foolish people however who swallow his bait.

    At best Moles is immature but I don’t even grant him “the best” status. He is, in fact, an ally of abusive men. A guy’s guy you know. His view of women is in the ditch. He offers victims false hope – for money. Filthy lucre as the KJV puts it.

    • Exactly right, Jeff. It occurred to me how many of Luther’s 95 Theses would apply to him and to people like him.
      So he has the “magic power” to change an abuser to a loving husband and father, but he won’t do it unless we pay him 3,000 dollars??
      Why are we…?
      what the…?
      I just can’t …?

      And as you and I know, the only kind of person that would shell out the 3,000 dollars is someone who wants to show the world that he has “changed” so he can continue his abuse, and continue to keep his family and church in bondage.
      It’s just penance for show.

      How can you tell someone is not repentant? He shells out 3,000 bucks for Chris Moles and wants the world to know.
      Ugh.

    • Thanks Jeff. 🙂

  4. Jeff Crippen

    Moles is the abuser’s ally. He is not the victim’s friend. He really views abuse as not that big of a deal – and thus self-exalting buffoonery proves it. He is a modern day version of the huckster selling elixiir that is “good for whatever ails you.”

  5. Bj

    I didn’t read the cause of their problem on his list of “problems” to solve – just say no.

  6. Moving Forward

    This was very painful to read this morning. What abusers do to their families is no joking matter. He is just playing into what they want, that their abuse not be taken seriously and that there is really no need for them to change. And not only that, but the family pays for them to have a new “buddy”? As Anon said, the hard truth is needed, and it is very serious.

    People like Moles have no idea of the gut-wrenching, heart-pounding, tear-provoking pain that we go through, whether as a result of direct abuse to ourselves or to and through our children. Right now I am in mental anguish and it causes physical agony too because my children are being withheld from me and I don’t know when they will return. That is so not funny, and reading about Moles attitude of camaraderie with abusers just like mine adds to the pain.

    I appreciate more than I can express that Jeff Crippen still checks on this blog and comments. I can look forward to Sundays and listening to his sermons in spite of the pain of being rejected by my church.

    Reading posts and comments helps me to work through the mind-twisting I endure and puts words to my experience when I don’t know how to express things in my own brain, which feels like it is losing brain cells every day.

    • Moving Forward – Reaching out with ((hugs)) and prayers for you. You have voiced so well the pain victims are expected to endure: ” … gut-wrenching, heart-pounding, tear-provoking … mental anguish … physical agony … mind-twisting … losing brain cells …”
      You are right. This is no joking matter.

  7. paescapee

    It seems very disrespectful to victims to joke about in this context. Victims NEVER have the opportunity to take this subject lightly – it can be literally life or death. Appalling behaviour.

  8. healinginhim

    Thank you for this series ‘exposing’ the repulsiveness of Chris Moles. His antics sicken me because they remind me so much of the local church members.

  9. I haven’t been able to keep up with all of the Chris Moles posts – (those who know me on facebook know why) – but this one caught my eye.

    I also have a sense of humor, and enjoy the beauty of a well-phrased joke or lighthearted pun. In a dark and often-times ugly world, God gives us moments to remember that laughter is good for the soul.

    But you nailed it with this post. This isn’t a joke. Lives are at stake. The gospel is at stake.

    You caught my eye when you mentioned his reference to Jesus as “dude”, and I think this strikes at the problem. When the sermon becomes entertainment for the masses, you pack the halls if you are good at it, but you are no longer a minister of the gospel.

    There is a weight in preaching (glory, in Hebrew). This doesn’t mean stodgy, but it means that there is a seriousness to it.

    If we truly believe the message we are preaching, it should appall us to refer to Christ as “dude”. “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”

    I knew a man in seminary that was always cutting up. When he was being examined by the Presbytery, during the Bible knowledge part, he was asked who the midwives were who saved the baby boys in Exodus 1. He said, “I don’t know. Thelma and Louise?” And one of the old-timers rebuked him. “Do you think this is a joke?” Do you think that the high calling of minister of the gospel is simply fodder for stand-up material?

    I can’t stand it. When the minister is more interested in the punch-line than the gospel, he forfeits the right to preach.

    • GypsyAngel

      Sam,

      You hit the nail on the head. The Gospel is not a joke. It is indeed a “weighty” matter. This man’s light treatment of not only abuse but the Gospel is red flags and flashing lights.

  10. StandsWithAFist

    I just threw up in my mouth.

    Coarse jesting & using God’s name in vain has now been “normalized”….because the [unvarnished] truth might “burn out” perpetrators and the “information” is “disparaging”. [Note From Barb Roberts – I think Chris was addressing the biblical counselors when he said that the “information” is “disparaging”.]

    Kinda like alcoholics are simply pitiful comedians, falling-down drunk, or Nazis are simply misunderstood Germans celebrating Oktoberfest.

    As if.

    The poor little predators might actually cry fake crocodile tears & just need some comic relief.

    Cry me a river.

    No mention of targets or victims.
    No mention of bruised & battered bodies, or torn clothing or hungry children or character assassination or destroyed reputations or devastating bankruptcy or forced homelessness or repossessed vehicles or closed bank accounts or lost child custody or institutional intimidation or humiliation….shall I go on??

    Oh. Silly me. It’s hard to get laughs when the “punch line” is literal punches.

    Shame on Chris Moles & all who are like him, support him or promote him.

  11. Anonymous

    Wow – Chris Moles has revealed who he is and who he really serves.

  12. Helovesme

    This too was very painful for me to read.

    But not just because of the tragic truth and validity that I saw shining through (great job as always, Barbara! You really do your homework and I don’t know if there’s any way to properly thank you)

    But because I too have (in the past) tried to deal with serious subjects with a light heart. Trying to minimize the seriousness of pain in order to deal with it—-or a clever way of masking it.

    It took strong rebuke from the Lord before I truly saw myself as He saw me. And I am very glad He loved me enough to get that through my thick skull.

    Stop with the put downs towards yourself and others in the name of clowning around, being humorous, or (bear with me) trying to prove to others what a “changed person” you are.

    Before I met the Lord, I was a very dark and depressed person. “Goth-like” is the best way I can describe it. I thought, as a Christian, that I better darn well “lighten up” and start acting like a changed person. Time to smile my way through the pain and tears and grasp the “joy of the Lord.” I had no idea what a fool I was being!

    I’ve been around pastors who used a lot of humor, sometimes in a decent way (humor is NOT a sin)—-but many other times in a very hurtful way.

    I feel for pastors, who DO have the weighty task of trying to be very aware of their congregation—-and be sensitive to who they are and how they will react.

    I believe it’s an ongoing work, even for seasoned pastors, to let the Holy Spirit work through you as you preach. And NOT rely (at all) on the power of your personality to reach people.

    I don’t say that lightly—don’t rely one bit on your supposed charisma, or magnetic personality when you preach or teach. And not just towards the wounded and suffering.

    The Gospel doesn’t need wit or charm in order to effective. Paul shot those things down when he claimed to know nothing but “Christ crucified” (1 Corinthians 1:23)

    I absolutely do not dispute Chris trying to be a kind, even friendly counselor to work with. Someone who you can relate to, and feel comfortable in opening up to. Working with abusers doesn’t mean you have to be cold and menacing.

    But I draw the line at HIS description of it: abusers are NOT there for a good time. You are NOT their buddy or their pal and you are NOT there to crack jokes with them. You’re playing right into their hands that way.

    More than likely, abusers will want you on their side. They will want to earn your trust, your confidence and even your friendship. It makes it harder for a counselor to hold them accountable if you are trying too hard to impress them as just “one of the guys.”

    Chris must understand that being a professional is very important. These men are accused of serious crimes. Take the victims seriously, even if they are not right in front of your face. These are abusers, not “victims of their own undoing.” These people victimized OTHERS.

    “TWO REDNECK GOOFBALLS WHO CONNED AN ENTIRE DENOMINATION.”

    This type of “humor” is what drives the unsaved away.

    Most “humor” has a kernel of truth in it. Especially humor based on sarcasm, self-deprecating or so-called wit or charm at the expense of others. My gut says that Chris tried to be funny in what he stated, but that there is some real truth in him “conning” his denomination for the needed funds.

    But he “spun” it in a way that came across as though what he did was harmless, because they are nothing but “redneck goofballs,” who did what they had to do in order to start this so-called wonderful ministry.

    I’ve often seen too many parallels between the pulpit and politics. Both professions do rely somewhat heavily on donations in order to keep working. The former, however, should never try to “con” people into giving when they are fundraising or trying to raise support for themselves (missionaries often do this).

    Present your personal needs with honor, truth and dignity. Let the Lord work. Manipulating people makes you no different than a politician who is more hungry for power, not to serve the Lord and people.

    The money part was interesting. $3,000 is an enormous amount of money! I loved the verses you referenced to illustrate your points, by the way. Those are verses that I think need to brought to the forefront more often. They are powerful and very straightforward.

    “When he is addressing ‘c’hristian audiences, Chris frequently plugs his book and touts himself as a domestic abuse consultant for churches (e.g., F 20:34-22:25; 59:18). He is blatant about how he enjoys the money he gets from being seen as an expert.”

    I’ve seen this type of attitude in the world, from those that are not born again—-and it’s disgusting to me personally. Bear in mind, I’m 100% aware that these people are not Christians, and don’t claim to be (at least I hope not!)

    But to hear a person touting himself as a Christian: bragging and boasting and joking and acting like the world is his stage to perform on—-and we are his audience—is beyond comprehension.

    I do not believe that a pastor or leader has to “muzzle” him or herself—-God gave us distinct personalities and we should let Him shine through us as His individual children.

    But this is nothing but immaturity and straight up ungodly behavior.

    I feel like I can say that with confidence, because I’ve somewhat been in his shoes (though I thankfully had nothing like his power or fame), and the Lord made it clear that it was not pleasing to Him.

    No argument on my part stood on firm ground: but God, this is who I am! I joke, I clown around, I USE humor to reach people!

    Answer from Him: It’s not who I am. Your ways are based on fear, insecurity—and they hurt people, they don’t help them. And you’re only hurting yourself as well.

    Who did I want to be more like? Myself (as I wanted to be like?), or like Him as He was defining Himself to me? As a born again person, it’s crucial to choose the latter!

    • Thanks, Heloveme, for telling us about the way you used humour out of fear and insecurity, and how God brought you to see that you needed to change that. I relate to that a bit.

  13. Finding Answers

    Moving Forward commented People like Moles have no idea of the gut-wrenching, heart-pounding, tear-provoking pain that we go through, whether as a result of direct abuse to ourselves or to and through our children. Right now I am in mental anguish and it causes physical agony too because my children are being withheld from me and I don’t know when they will return. That is so not funny, and reading about Moles attitude of camaraderie with abusers just like mine adds to the pain.

    I am so, so sorry you have been tossed another curve ball, Moving Forward….praying for you..

    Helovesme commented But because I too have (in the past) tried to deal with serious subjects with a light heart. Trying to minimize the seriousness of pain in order to deal with it—-or a clever way of masking it.

    Yup. I totally get this one…humour is a way of discounting, repeating my abusers tactics. The Holy Spirit has had some gentle chats with me, as He helps me edit my words.

    Sam Powell AUGUST 24, 2018 – 10:21 AM

    And all God’s people said “AMEN”

    • Grace

      I am very grieved by the graceless comments as well as the mean- spirited articles you have posted about Chris Moles. I have been in an abusive marriage for 27 years and I have personally met Chris. You mischaracterize him. And you slander his name.
      This is not Christ-like.
      I used to visit your site for insight, but I can no longer recommend.
      I am very sorry about the direction you have taken.
      It is judgmental and self-righteous.
      Where is humility and the fruit of the Spirit?

      • Okay, goodbye Grace.

        Since this is your first comment on our blog, I don’t think our readers will miss you much. Of course you are free to have your own opinion about Chris Moles or anyone else, but I encourage you to think about how many people believed your abusive husband was ‘such a nice guy’ while he was abusing you for all those years.

        NOTE: I am not saying Chris Moles is an abuser. I am saying he is not qualified to be teaching the church about domestic abuse and he is not qualified to be working with men who abuse their female parters.

      • GypsyAngel

        Grace,

        I for one have never seen anyone from A Cry for Justice attack any individual who wishes to help victims of abuse (and I have been reading this blog for a few years now). Quite to the contrary. I have seen writings speaking clearly about issues that concern learned individuals about information put forth. Their PRIMARY concern is for Victims of Abuse and their healing through the Living Word of God. When a piece has been written concerning an author, book, speaker, or other informational pieces, A LOT of seeking God, research, and knowledge has been expended to ensure a fair analyzation of said writer et. all…..

        It would appear as if this particular article has touched a nerve, which is understandable. It happens. However, to suggest that these pieces were written out of the spirit of meanness or to harm, I believe, goes far wide of the truth. Though of course, you are certainly welcome to your own opinion.

        #ALongTimeReader

      • healinginhim

        Grace – The reference to ‘mean-spirited’ is a triggering word for me since my very nice abuser(s), some for over 40 years have done a wonderful job of making especially the churched folk feel that I’m not gracious enough. That I’m bitter and in some ways being mean-spirited for finally speaking the truth.

        It took the untwisting of Scriptures by ministries like ACFJ to make me realize I had a voice.

        Chris Moles may come across as genuine to some but how do you account for the examples of him not taking abuse too seriously? This reminds me so much of how abusers act. They treat others respectfully but their victims are harmed in so many cunning ways and we are expected to remain quiet so we don’t ruin their reputation.

      • Helovesme

        HealinginHim I connected very much with this statement you made: “They treat others respectfully but their victims are harmed in so many cunning ways and we are expected to remain quiet so we don’t ruin their reputation.”

        Abusers do not hurt “random” people. They tend to study their potential targets carefully, before actually engaging in abuse.

        That is something that makes me very upset; the attitude of: well this “nice person” was been so nice to me! How can you call him or her out for abuse?

        Answer: I was abused because I was targeted by him or her. If you had been his or her target, we’d be having a MUCH different conversation.

        Grace, be blessed as you soldier on. I’m sorry that ACFJ has appeared graceless towards Mr. Moles. I do not believe they took ANY pleasure in what they uncovered in their hard work and research—-they presented what they found without resorting to petty name calling or using any sort of abusive methods.

        I WISH Chris Moles was the real deal. Goodness, those who have been abused so badly want to believe that there is real, honest leadership in the church—-in an area where there is so much need for attention and education.

        But without questioning the sincerity of his motives (I have often commented on my personal hunch that Chris really does want to help others)—-there’s just too many things that he espouses or ways that he counsels/teaches that make things worse. Or do not reflect sound teaching and Biblical judgment.

        Barbara did an excellent post about some areas that Chris DOES get it right, by the way. She does not go around tearing people down just for the some insane pleasure.

        By the way, it takes great humility to do the amount of research she does. I don’t know if I personally would have her level of endurance. .

        Also, if she’s mischaracterized him, I for one would be quite curious as to how exactly. I would not argue with you at all if you claim he’s a wonderful person if you meet him (as you’ve met him) But we’re looking at his work, which is separate from his persona.

        And Barbara has never slandered him. Slander is serious, and it’s a serious charge to lob at a fellow believer.

        Slander is defined as: “the action or crime of making a false spoken statement damaging to a person’s reputation. To “make false and damaging statements about (someone).”

        Barbara has never attacked his character or tried to hurt him personally. She has uncovered major flaws and huge problems with his work.

        I understand that Chris and his supporters will take her posts as offensive, even though it’s about his work, not his character. That is understandable. But it’s not slanderous.

        Mean spirited is something I’ve experienced. Barbara is not like that at all. She is straight forward, direct, and I’ve seen her work hard to answer as many questions or objections as possible. When someone asks her a direct question, she honors it and answers them as honestly as possible.

        I have an older sister that may come across as mean spirited to others. She is something like Barbara in that she is quite honest and usually says what she thinks, even if others don’t like what she has to say. I’ve grown to enjoy that part of her, to be honest. because I usually know where she stands on the issues. But I can understand how that might rub other people the wrong way, even though my sister is not looking to offend when she speaks her mind.

        I once spoke to someone who has interacted with Barb more than I have, and she noticed how Barb’s discernment into her life was quite extraordinary. If that is not the fruit of the spirit, I do not know what is.

  14. Finding Answers

    GypsyAngel commented It would appear as if this particular article has touched a nerve, which is understandable. It happens…..

    Whether here or any other arena, there are times the Holy Spirit lets me know I need extra information / time to process.

    GypsyAngel also wrote I have found in the past that when I get that sort of unsettledness in my core that it is most often a leading of the Spirit telling me that something isn’t quite right there……

    I think this comment describes what I mean when I say something gives me an “itchy” feeling. Something feels a bit “off”, but can’t be readily identified.

    There are times I am led to re-evaluate what I thought / knew. There are times I am led to a deeper understanding of what I thought / knew. There are times I am led to a complete systems overhaul.

    I have faced all of these circumstances more times in the last less-than-one-year than in my entire rest of my life – and at a far, far deeper level.

    I appreciate all the ACFJ posts and comments generated – I am challenged on many levels. Identifying the source of the challenge can be tricky. Is it a reaction / response to something personal? Or is it a reaction / response to something in the bigger picture?

    The series on Chris Moles has helped me identify some of my “itchies” on Chris for which I had no words.

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